Comments on: 24 Hours of Le Mans 2009 – LMP2 Review http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/ The latest Le Mans, Sportscar and GT racing news! Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:19:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: matthew pigg http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5603 matthew pigg Sun, 28 Jun 2009 21:45:15 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5603 I agree with Kiki. It's not just about the ACO getting there act together, it's about all parts working together to solve a problem, this is not this 1st time such a issue has occured with turbocharged engine with poor quaility of fuel (it happen to Porsche during the group C era) I agree with Kiki. It’s not just about the ACO getting there act together, it’s about all parts working together to solve a problem, this is not this 1st time such a issue has occured with turbocharged engine with poor quaility of fuel (it happen to Porsche during the group C era)

]]> By: Kiki http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5600 Kiki Sun, 28 Jun 2009 13:21:10 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5600 Those ACO guys really need to get their act together. If the privateer base has to buy new engines every race, they'll soon dwindle in numbers. Those ACO guys really need to get their act together. If the privateer base has to buy new engines every race, they’ll soon dwindle in numbers.

]]> By: Dave Henrie http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5599 Dave Henrie Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:48:45 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5599 Here is a snippet from the Lola-Mazda website. The statement pertains to Spa but the same problems obviously continued through Le Mans http://www.mazda-lola.com/LMS2009/LMS2009_02Spa_preview.htm Le Mans Series 2009 Round 2. Spa-Francorchamps 1000 Kilometres. May 8th-10th 2009 Weekend Preview While this declaration caught most pundits on the hop, the long-anticipated announcement involving an addressing of the fuel incompatibility issue in LMP2 failed to materialise. News of general dissatisfaction within LMP2 ranks broke just before Barcelona, with two teams letting it be known that they were unhappy with the way the current bio-fuel formulation favours the normally-aspirated engines. The issue was effectively confirmed by RML AD Group it its own post-race press release, which revealed that the Mazda-Lola's engine failure at Barcelona had been attributable to the fuel incompatibility problem. The issue first arose at Paul Ricard in March 2008, when RML's MG Lola suffered two catastrophic engine failures during the official pre-season test. Subsequent examination by engine manufacturer AER revealed that the bio-fuel formulation, introduced new for 2008, was incompatible with the turbocharged engines. Appeals were made to the ACO to address the problem, but nothing was forthcoming, although assurances were offered that suggested the issue would be investigated. RML, in common with other teams running turbocharged engines, were left with no option but to de-tune their engines for the remainder of the season. Frustrated by a year of having to compete with a power disadvantage of some 50 horsepower, RML announced a two-year engine deal with Mazda from November 2008. While hopes remained that the incompatibility issue really would be addressed, the Mazda unit offered the benefit of being less highly stressed than the end-of-development MG XP-21, and better able to cope with the poor quality fuel. Hopes were dashed when samples of the 2009 specification fuel were analysed, only to reveal that the quality was actually inferior to the fuel supplied in 2008, and the affect on turbocharged engines was (is) likely to be even more acute. Proof of the pudding came with the relatively poor results achieved by the turbocharged runners at Barcelona - the best finish coming from the Bruichladdich Radical in fourth - and the engine failures suffered by both the RML and the KSM Lolas. Further appeals have been made to the ACO. Here is a snippet from the Lola-Mazda website. The statement pertains to Spa but the same problems obviously continued through Le Mans
http://www.mazda-lola.com/LMS2009/LMS2009_02Spa_preview.htm

Le Mans Series 2009
Round 2. Spa-Francorchamps 1000 Kilometres. May 8th-10th 2009
Weekend Preview

While this declaration caught most pundits on the hop, the long-anticipated announcement involving an addressing of the fuel incompatibility issue in LMP2 failed to materialise. News of general dissatisfaction within LMP2 ranks broke just before Barcelona, with two teams letting it be known that they were unhappy with the way the current bio-fuel formulation favours the normally-aspirated engines. The issue was effectively confirmed by RML AD Group it its own post-race press release, which revealed that the Mazda-Lola’s engine failure at Barcelona had been attributable to the fuel incompatibility problem.

The issue first arose at Paul Ricard in March 2008, when RML’s MG Lola suffered two catastrophic engine failures during the official pre-season test. Subsequent examination by engine manufacturer AER revealed that the bio-fuel formulation, introduced new for 2008, was incompatible with the turbocharged engines. Appeals were made to the ACO to address the problem, but nothing was forthcoming, although assurances were offered that suggested the issue would be investigated. RML, in common with other teams running turbocharged engines, were left with no option but to de-tune their engines for the remainder of the season.

Frustrated by a year of having to compete with a power disadvantage of some 50 horsepower, RML announced a two-year engine deal with Mazda from November 2008. While hopes remained that the incompatibility issue really would be addressed, the Mazda unit offered the benefit of being less highly stressed than the end-of-development MG XP-21, and better able to cope with the poor quality fuel. Hopes were dashed when samples of the 2009 specification fuel were analysed, only to reveal that the quality was actually inferior to the fuel supplied in 2008, and the affect on turbocharged engines was (is) likely to be even more acute.

Proof of the pudding came with the relatively poor results achieved by the turbocharged runners at Barcelona – the best finish coming from the Bruichladdich Radical in fourth – and the engine failures suffered by both the RML and the KSM Lolas. Further appeals have been made to the ACO.

]]> By: Dave Henrie http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5598 Dave Henrie Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:35:48 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5598 At Sebring and Le Mans we have seen the Mazdas can survive, but at such a cost in power it is non-competitve. The Fernandez Acura was leaping ahead of the Dyson Lola Mazdas at Sebring. Since, then, shorter races and a larger air restrictor for the Mazda have leveled the playing field. But I bet the next long race, Petite Le Mans, we'll see the Dyson Lolas struggling again. AER, like all engine builders, design engines based on the rules not only as they exist but also those proposed for the future. As noted by other posters, Turbos need a certain level of fuel quality to run at peak efficiency. The fuel used by the ACO when the Mazda MZR-R engines were designed and built satisfied those requirements. Clearly there is some underlying motive, either money from the fuel supplier in sponsorship dollars or the slavish adoption of Green Rules, that has created a competitive imbalance. Would Audi sit quietly by if the ACO chose a fuel that favored the Puegeot's engine and caused damage to the Audi engine? At Sebring and Le Mans we have seen the Mazdas can survive, but at such a cost in power it is non-competitve. The Fernandez Acura was leaping ahead of the Dyson Lola Mazdas at Sebring. Since, then, shorter races and a larger air restrictor for the Mazda have leveled the playing field. But I bet the next long race, Petite Le Mans, we’ll see the Dyson Lolas struggling again.
AER, like all engine builders, design engines based on the rules not only as they exist but also those proposed for the future. As noted by other posters, Turbos need a certain level of fuel quality to run at peak efficiency. The fuel used by the ACO when the Mazda MZR-R engines were designed and built satisfied those requirements. Clearly there is some underlying motive, either money from the fuel supplier in sponsorship dollars or the slavish adoption of Green Rules, that has created a competitive imbalance. Would Audi sit quietly by if the ACO chose a fuel that favored the Puegeot’s engine and caused damage to the Audi engine?

]]> By: bamba http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5597 bamba Sat, 27 Jun 2009 21:25:01 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5597 The fuel is not the problem. AER simply needs to produce the turbos to work with the fuel given. The ALMS uses biofuel (petrol and ethanol mix) so all teams tune down their engines slightly to make that fuel mixture work. The Mazda AER engines were designed for the ALMS regs, so it's time to go back to the drawing board. But of course they're probably waiting for the bank check from Mazda to start on that. The fuel is not the problem. AER simply needs to produce the turbos to work with the fuel given.

The ALMS uses biofuel (petrol and ethanol mix) so all teams tune down their engines slightly to make that fuel mixture work. The Mazda AER engines were designed for the ALMS regs, so it’s time to go back to the drawing board.

But of course they’re probably waiting for the bank check from Mazda to start on that.

]]> By: matthew pigg http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5594 matthew pigg Sat, 27 Jun 2009 20:06:21 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5594 Think some of the problem is down to the quaility of the fuel, they use diffrant fuel in the ALMS compared to the LMS, I am not sure which brands of fuel are use but it seems to be that the fuel used in the ALMS is of a high quaility than is used in the LMS, Turbo engines need a high quaility of fuel to stop pre-detination (ie spark ouccuring at the wrong time) Think some of the problem is down to the quaility of the fuel, they use diffrant fuel in the ALMS compared to the LMS, I am not sure which brands of fuel are use but it seems to be that the fuel used in the ALMS is of a high quaility than is used in the LMS, Turbo engines need a high quaility of fuel to stop pre-detination (ie spark ouccuring at the wrong time)

]]> By: Rogier http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5593 Rogier Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:42:17 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5593 Can you please elaborate on the turbe/fuel issue? Can you please elaborate on the turbe/fuel issue?

]]> By: Phil http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5591 Phil Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:17:54 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5591 Good comments from the above people It's fair to say that this category proves how hard it is at Le Mans, no matter if you've won races here or there, Le Mans is so unforgiving. Big congrats to the Porshce Spyder, it's a phenominal machine. Good comments from the above people

It’s fair to say that this category proves how hard it is at Le Mans, no matter if you’ve won races here or there, Le Mans is so unforgiving.

Big congrats to the Porshce Spyder, it’s a phenominal machine.

]]> By: Dave Henrie http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5589 Dave Henrie Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:47:41 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5589 I think there is a different fuel in the ALMS. With the exception of Sebring, where the Mazda was several seconds per lap slower and probably not running at full boost, the ALMS races have been shorter and thus the engines may not have reached that failure point yet. I believe the Turbo teams in LMS have been reducing boost to try and survive. Oak Mazda is a good example, they finish, but are off the pace. I think there is a different fuel in the ALMS. With the exception of Sebring, where the Mazda was several seconds per lap slower and probably not running at full boost, the ALMS races have been shorter and thus the engines may not have reached that failure point yet.
I believe the Turbo teams in LMS have been reducing boost to try and survive. Oak Mazda is a good example, they finish, but are off the pace.

]]> By: micky http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/comment-page-1/#comment-5588 micky Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:38:25 +0000 http://www.planetlemans.com/2009/06/26/24-hours-of-le-mans-2009-lmp2-review/#comment-5588 Mazda engines running ok in US why not here.. Porsche needs slowing down and teams need to get their act togehther to make this class more competitive. Mazda engines running ok in US why not here.. Porsche needs slowing down and teams need to get their act togehther to make this class more competitive.

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